first off, i wanna say, haha! your page and book give me a good laugh. you people are always going to try and disuade christ but never try to disuade mohammed, buddha, etc. christianity is a threat to all america....now to the point, i want to tell that jesus is not a story from egyptian gods for case 1. jesus lived out the old testament prophecies and not the egyptian gods and don't say that all these prophecies are from egypt also...2. if jesus didn't exist, dont u think the jewish and roman communities would have said "no, its not true, he didn't exist", what they said was, his so-called miracles were from sorcecy so from this point u see that the jews believe he did work but it was supposivley sorcery ....from just these two points we can see that he existed from jewish prophecies, not egyptian myths....3. these apostles didn't make this up because they had nothing to gain from it except death....they died preaching of this non-existent man...i pursuade u to read 'The Case for Christ' by Lee Strobel, it will explain your whole book and i guarantee that scholars would not except the basic premisis of your book....i would also like to add a couple more things, thallus, plegon and many other roman historians wrote of jesus..thallus tried to explain the darkness of noon to be an eclipse....many people have set out to prove jesus to be wrong and non-exist(i.e. Josh McDowell) and have come to Christ because they have found the truth
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 03:21:03 -0700
To: Acharya S
Subject: Fwd: christ
Believe it or not, I'll actually refute him, albeit briefly:
1. How do you know that Jesus fulfilled any prophecies? First of all, many of the "prophecies" that he "fulfilled" are mistranslations from the Septuagint (such as the references to the son of the "virgin" and to the messiah being "pierced"). Is the Greek translation inspired in a way that the Hebrew original isn't? Second of all, even if the "prophecies" that Jesus allegedly "fulfilled" are really in the Bible, how do you know a scribe(s) didn't simply copy a number of "messianic" passages and invent a story about a hero who fulfilled them?
2. By the time Christianity became large enough to attract the interest of the Romans, they had no way of knowing (or caring) whether or not Jesus was an actual person. The Empire was filled with people claiming to be divine and/or having supernatural powers, so one more claimant wouldn't astonish them. As for the Jews, the earliest Jewish critics did deny that Jesus ever lived. Justin Martyr (circa 150 CE) quotes Trypho, his Jewish opponent, as saying that Christians "follow a mere rumor of the Messiah and if he ever lived anywhere he is completely unknown." Later Jewish critics did indeed assume he existed, but they lived centuries after the fact and had no way of knowing. The Gospel story is very conveniently set just before the Roman-Jewish War when all the records were destroyed!
3. Many Jews have died for the Biblical Deity, who is certainly disincarnate. Many Muslims have died for their faith. Do you believe Mohammed was a true prophet? What about the many pagans who have died for their religion? Men will die for a concept as readily as they will for a guru. In any event, the Christian claims to martyrdom have never been proved. Yes, some Christians were killed, and possibly going back to the beginning, but this is not to say that they were personal witnesses. Paul was imprisoned, and perhaps even killed, for his Christian faith, and yet he is adamant that he never met a human Jesus. So if the most celebrated Christian missionary of all time was willing to die for a mere vision, why not other early Christians too? Martyrdom does not require belief in the veracity of the Gospel or any other religion story.
4. There is nothing conclusive in the Roman record. Thallus only wrote of an eclipse of the sun, and one that actually occurred around 30 CE. Julius Africanus merely assumed that he was referring to the darkness of the Crucifixion. The Tacitean passage has historical anachronisms, is entirely unknown to early Christian writers, and in any event would only be a witness to what Christians of the early second century believes. Pliny also refers to Christians, treats of Christ as a god and makes no reference to him as an actual person. Suetonius referred to a Chrestus (not Christus) who was alive in Rome in the 40's leading the Jews in a popular rebellion. Even if this is true, it completely contradicts the Gospel story, which has Jesus as a non-violent, non-political preacher who was removed from the scene by the mid-30's.
To: Acharya S
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:38:18 -0500
… Thank you for speaking the truth. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. From day one, I never bought the whole Christian ideology. As far as I'm concerned, it is the scourge of human society. Objectively, it is one of the most illogical and ridiculous ideas in this world. And I've been fighting it, and organized religion in general, since I was around 13 or so. I'm 24 now. Educated people who claim to be objective and fair, believe in a specter in the sky, watching, and keeping track of everything you do. Intelligent people, who believe that their way is the only way, period. Never mind that there have been tens of thousands of religions throughout human history, and all of their faithful believed it was their way that was actually the right way. And never mind the power structure and wealth Christianity created for its leaders. Illogical.
I actually spoke to a girl at work the other day who told me that it was 'God's Plan' for women to be dominated by men in a marriage. Her only ambition is to be a 'Preacher's Wife.' I kid you not, that really happened. That a dominate male society set up that ideology 2000 years ago to ensure their power.... She didn't want to hear that.
Anyway. Thank you. Thank you so much. Sometimes I lose hope for this world, and then I read your website and your email link. You're giving people out here in the trenches hope. Real hope. And that's more powerful than anything else.
Even though you're already aware, I want you to know that there are others out here that share your ideas, that will one day teach their children the truth, and will pick up where you leave off, in hopes of a better and more peaceful world for all of us. I will personally fight Christianity (peacefully) on every front.
To: Acharya S
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 19:44:07 –0000
You're a great person.
I'm a Muslim apostate, glad to be out of Islam.
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:48:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Thanks for replying.
To: Acharya S
…I agree with you wholeheartedly...I don't like fanatics, either. Sadly, they are found in every belief system.
I cannot understand anyone who would drop to the depths of fanaticism. That means they've stopped asking questions. The moment any human stops doing that, they stop learning. When we stop learning, we become vegetables.
What Paganism does for me that no other belief system ever could was to take away the chance for pure fanaticism. Here, there is no one, true "path". This belief really comforts me. It may not work for other people this way, but it does for me.
When I was a Christian, I fell to the depths of fanaticism. It was my way or no way, and it was slowly crippling my intellect. I basically woke up one day and had a moment of clarity. I said, very frankly, "Fuck this!" and started searching my heart to find what I really believed...passed the fear of eternal hellfire.
I believe there are many paths that lead to the Supreme Being(s), not just one. This way of life finds me appreciating cultures, beliefs, religions, and views of all kind. Though I may have a hardy disbelief in many of them, they have my utmost respect.
Just thought I'd give you a little background on why I asked the question I did. You are an extremely intelligent person, and being as such, your opinions matter to me. Gone are the days of my listening to the blind and ignorant.
Thanks again for answering my e-mail. It has been a pleasure talking to you. Write me any time!
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:36:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: Acharya S
…Thank you so much for your work. I will throw whatever blessings your way I can. I'm no more, or less of a god/goddess than any of us. Perhaps you are a little more of one than most of us, given your excellent and helpful work. And I don't mean the kind like big (bad) daddy in the sky who doesn't f------ exist. Thou art god/dess! (If I may say so!) Blessings, if I can send them,
To: Acharya S
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:28:51 +0200
... Now I have some time for the Italian translation of your book: THE CHRIST CONSPIRACY...
To: Acharya S
Subject: thank you
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 02:00:36 +1000
Thank you so much!!!
I'm so glad there are people like you out there. I've just read your "Proof That God Doesn't Exist, Prayer Doesn't Work And Religion Creates Psychosis" section, and I loved it. I've been thinking the same thing for years, I just couldn't explain it as well as you did. I honestly can say I hate (can't stand) people who "will pray for my soul" or "beg for gods forgiveness for me", whenever someone said something like that to me, I'd just be speechless for awhile, I was just full of rage. I couldn't comprehend how stupid they were sounding. Anyway I'll just get to the point and stop babbling I'd just like to say thank you once again for making my day and making me laugh = )
I'm an atheist by the way =P keep up the great work you're making a big difference
To: Acharya S
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:55:48 -0400
I just wanted to say I enjoyed your book. I was most impressed with your writing style, knowledge and insight. I have recommended this book to everyone I know. I just don't know what else to say. Thank you so very much.
To: Acharya S
Subject: a new visitor to your website
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:09:16 -0500
… I learned about your site by an old friend whose wife is very enthusiastic about your work. The irony is that I am enrolled in a Catholic seminary as we speak…. I looked at your site and saw much of interest---I ordered a used copy of EUNUCHS FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN yesterday, and I will order your book as soon as my stipend arrives. (Funny that I'll be buying your book with money from the diocese of ********, my birthplace.) I was raised Southern Baptist and rebelled against the whole shmear as a teen. As I grew older I wondered if maybe I had just rejected God because I couldn't stand my own father. (NYU psychology prof Paul Vitz discusses this phenomenon in his book FAITH OF THE FATHERLESS.) Three years ago I became Catholic and have just spent my first year in seminary. I figured it was the ultimate challenge---go into the belly of the beast and see which one of us walks out!
What do I really think about God? About sex? About the existence of the soul? About prayer? I thought it was worth a few years of my life to discover what I really think and believe, deep down, about these things. My reading this summer has been in the area of cognitive science, which I find very exciting, as it provides a way to understand language and creativity without positing a soul. (I really don't like dualism in any form, which may sound bizarre coming from someone in my position, but it's the truth nonetheless.) Why am I telling you all this? In part, frankly, because it's a slow night in *****. But more importantly, my position since conversion has been: "If I can be talked out of this, I want to be." (I was always secretly concerned that my DENIAL of God's existence were more a matter of wishful thinking than a discernment of the truth. I really did not want there to be a God, but as we all know, "wishing don't make it so," so I had to become skeptical of my skepticism!) I would hate to think that I turned away from a contrary position because I feared it might turn out to be true, so I've been seeking out thinkers who challenge Christian beliefs. This brings me to you and the prospect of reading your book, which excites me. I have printed your list of recommended books on religion and marked the titles I have read (six to eight) and those I had heard of (a larger number) and those I had never heard of but which instantly fascinated me…
I ordered EUNUCHS first because the Church's views on sexuality/celibacy disturb me so deeply. (I brought a recent class here to a halt with awkward questions about a book called VIRGINITY that we were assigned.) On this front, you might be interested in visiting a website called rentapriest.com. It's about married Catholic priests (ex-clerics) who offer their services; their slogan is, "Celibacy is the issue!" (I know you do not agree with that, but it's a catchy rallying cry in any event.) They have posted an article called "39 Popes Were Married" that you might get a chuckle out of and also want to pass along someday. Enough of me. As I said before, when I get my next check from the diocese I will order your book, and probably a few more of your recommended titles.
Also, I have signed up to receive several sorts of mailings through infidels.org…
To: Acharya S
Subject: Can You come to Seattle to be on the Radio?
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:30:11 -0700
How are things going? I'm sure they as exciting as you are beautiful!! ;)… I wrote a local talk show celebrity here in Seattle about you and about your book. His name is BJ Shea and is on from noon to 3 PST. The station is 100.7 The BUZZ and is an all day all night talk format. He seemed to be interested in having you on the show. He is a MAJOR Christ ranter himself and it would be great to hear the both of you together talk about your research and take on callers that are opposed as well as for the truth. The show is run by entercom Seattle and the shows phone # is listed under BUZZ Seattle if you call to make arrangements to go on the air with him. Just to let you know, the show demographic is MEN between 18 and 40 and is the #1 radio station in Seattle. His email address is email@example.com …
To: Acharya S
Subject: Enjoyed Your Website
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:33:44 -0400
I greatly enjoyed your website. I make myself go to church, largely because I'm constantly pressured by family members. I was sitting in church today just absolutely miserable. I was listening to the assistant pastor rant and rave, realizing just how crazy he is, and how crazy the 500 people in the auditorium had to be. But why do so many people come and put themselves through that? For most of my life, I've wondered why I am different? Why did I start questioning? Your website was a great lift. Every once in a while I go to Christian web sites and try to shake them up a bit. I admire their strength -- they refuse to be rattled. They can't stand the idea of living without an afterlife. They expect "rewards" in heaven -- probably material rewards. What greedy bastards.
Take care, keep up your good work, and never let them rattle you.
To: Acharya S
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:34:22 -0400
Subject: In Agreement